by Zoe
Dan Comstock, of nerology, posted a really interesting response to my post on LARP and journalism. In the interest of keeping the conversation between bloggers going, I wanted to discuss it. He brought up a thought-provoking point to which I wanted to respond:
"Moreover, I have to speak up against the characterization of LARPers are a “stigmatized culture”. I think that’s a tad melodramatic. It’s not like we’re trans-gendered or handicapped or systematically oppressed. We have an unusual hobby, which we do in private. Some people laugh at pictures of it on the net, but so what? People on the net laugh at everything. I certainly don’t feel stigmatized."
I disagree with this, but I wanted to open it up for discussion. Mostly because, personally, I've taken the stigma of LARPing somewhat for granted (that is, assuming it exists). I wanted to get other people's opinions.
Firstly, do I think LARPers are as stigmatized as those who are trans-gendered, handicapped, or systematically oppressed? No. Not at all. However, I do absolutely think they are stigmatized, and here are the different reasons why:
1) Anonymity within the LARP Community
Obviously, I'm fairly open about my LARPing hobby. However, there are many within the community who are not. Online, in their business lives, and among non-LARP community friends, they don't speak about their LARP hobby, and, in many cases, keep it a secret. I've asked the question "why?" to quite a few people, all of whom expressed a fear of one or more of the following: a) losing their job, b) losing the respect of clients, students, and/or colleagues, and c) social ridicule. It seems to me that, whether or not these fears are sensical and confirmed, they are the result of a larger social stigma.
2) A feeling of shame within the LARP community.
This is a more troubling issue to me. At some LARP events, I've noticed a particular embarrassment associated with the activity itself. This happens when, inevitably, over the course of a weekend, a truck pulls through a field fight, some joggers or bikers traverse through a module, or, as was the case at a recent event, a tour group wanders through the camp for a few hours. I've witnessed, that, during these occasions, LARPers turn away their faces, move out of spots of visibility, and break game to appear "normal" (though I've since tried to stop, I've done all of these things on different occasions). Where does this feeling come from? Why do we feel embarrassment because of our hobby? I can't help but think that it comes from a shame which originated in stigmatization of the larger community.
To me, the stigma surrounding LARPing absolutely exists; however, the stigma may or may not be felt by all players, or may be felt to different degrees. The question to me, however, is where does it come from? And to this, I have Dan's post to thank-- I had long assumed an outward-to-inward stigmatization of LARPers, starting in a normative, non-LARPing community. However, I think just as much of the stigma comes from the actual LARP community itself: there is a feeling of embarrassment, and even shame, within many of the LARP circles that I have encountered. Where is that coming from? How does it affect our community? What is the source, outward or inward? (To that end, Bill Tobin of LARPohio has some really interesting ideas and projects in the works on how to positively represent LARPing to a larger audience.)
So, those are some starting thoughts on LARP and stigma. I invite people to share their own experiences. Here are my two big guiding questions:
1) Is LARP a stigmatized hobby-- why/why not?
2) If it is stigmatized, where does that come from?
Dan Comstock, of nerology, posted a really interesting response to my post on LARP and journalism. In the interest of keeping the conversation between bloggers going, I wanted to discuss it. He brought up a thought-provoking point to which I wanted to respond:
"Moreover, I have to speak up against the characterization of LARPers are a “stigmatized culture”. I think that’s a tad melodramatic. It’s not like we’re trans-gendered or handicapped or systematically oppressed. We have an unusual hobby, which we do in private. Some people laugh at pictures of it on the net, but so what? People on the net laugh at everything. I certainly don’t feel stigmatized."
I disagree with this, but I wanted to open it up for discussion. Mostly because, personally, I've taken the stigma of LARPing somewhat for granted (that is, assuming it exists). I wanted to get other people's opinions.
Firstly, do I think LARPers are as stigmatized as those who are trans-gendered, handicapped, or systematically oppressed? No. Not at all. However, I do absolutely think they are stigmatized, and here are the different reasons why:
1) Anonymity within the LARP Community
Obviously, I'm fairly open about my LARPing hobby. However, there are many within the community who are not. Online, in their business lives, and among non-LARP community friends, they don't speak about their LARP hobby, and, in many cases, keep it a secret. I've asked the question "why?" to quite a few people, all of whom expressed a fear of one or more of the following: a) losing their job, b) losing the respect of clients, students, and/or colleagues, and c) social ridicule. It seems to me that, whether or not these fears are sensical and confirmed, they are the result of a larger social stigma.
2) A feeling of shame within the LARP community.
This is a more troubling issue to me. At some LARP events, I've noticed a particular embarrassment associated with the activity itself. This happens when, inevitably, over the course of a weekend, a truck pulls through a field fight, some joggers or bikers traverse through a module, or, as was the case at a recent event, a tour group wanders through the camp for a few hours. I've witnessed, that, during these occasions, LARPers turn away their faces, move out of spots of visibility, and break game to appear "normal" (though I've since tried to stop, I've done all of these things on different occasions). Where does this feeling come from? Why do we feel embarrassment because of our hobby? I can't help but think that it comes from a shame which originated in stigmatization of the larger community.
To me, the stigma surrounding LARPing absolutely exists; however, the stigma may or may not be felt by all players, or may be felt to different degrees. The question to me, however, is where does it come from? And to this, I have Dan's post to thank-- I had long assumed an outward-to-inward stigmatization of LARPers, starting in a normative, non-LARPing community. However, I think just as much of the stigma comes from the actual LARP community itself: there is a feeling of embarrassment, and even shame, within many of the LARP circles that I have encountered. Where is that coming from? How does it affect our community? What is the source, outward or inward? (To that end, Bill Tobin of LARPohio has some really interesting ideas and projects in the works on how to positively represent LARPing to a larger audience.)
So, those are some starting thoughts on LARP and stigma. I invite people to share their own experiences. Here are my two big guiding questions:
1) Is LARP a stigmatized hobby-- why/why not?
2) If it is stigmatized, where does that come from?
1) I think it is only stigmatized insofar as it is an 'unusual' hobby with a distinct visual character, much like cosplay.
ReplyDeleteEasily identified, easily categorized, kinda different. That's all that's necessary.
2) I think almost every single group on Earth that is performing non-mainstream activities and gathered under a visually distinct banner is similarly 'stigmatized'.
Some people are more concerned with categorization than others, and these people will generally be put off by those who fall outside of whatever they recognize as 'norms', for the most part, this identification is performed visually, at first glance (skin color, hair color, facial shape, religious/tribal/state regalia). We wear highly visible costuming, so it is pretty damn easy to set us apart.
The tendency to vocally stigmatize such groups is part of the same mindset, as that is a very important part of group recognition behavior. We identify among ourselves in great part by coming to agreement on who is NOT part of our group.
Note that we ALL have this behavior, no matter how open-minded we think we are. It's just a matter of where you think you are on the spectrum of xenophobia.
Some of us believe we are willing to accept people of any race/creed - but most of us would still stop short of accepting a Nazi, a Tiger, or the xenomorph from Alien with open arms, because a total inability to distinguish between groups is suicidal.
It's also why we all - pretty much without fail - become more xenophobic when we feel threatened, whether or not any particular group is part of the perceived threat, not because we're so worried about THEM, but because we need to feel more secure and coherent regarding US, and to do that you need to close the others out.
You draw lines as much to determine who your allies are, as to define your enemies - if anything that is even more important.
Good points.
Delete"Note that we ALL have this behavior, no matter how open-minded we think we are. It's just a matter of where you think you are on the spectrum of xenophobia."
A really excellent point, and one to consider within the hobby community itself-- especially when we talk about other hobbies that are often considered, by "outsiders" to be within the same sphere as larping (furries come to mind).
1) Yes, it definitely is stigmatized. The degree varies substantially between people.
ReplyDelete2) I think it is clearly bidirectional/organic rather than strictly "inside" vs. "outside". I'm one of the "closeted" type of gamers, which my husband finds kind of silly, since he sees no shame in it.
I definitely have internal shame about it. It's a silly escapist thing. Which I'm not alone in... almost everyone had silly/mildly shameful escapist hobbies or guilty pleasures. I know plenty of intelligent, awesome people who watch stupid Reality TV programs, or read the trashiest pulp they can get their hands on, or whatever. But most such guilty pleasures are not quite so public and collaborative, and so lack the ability to be exposed so easily, and photographic proof doesn't necessarily exist.
But I've also experienced external stigma/shaming from other people when they learn about the hobby. Which, of course, reinforces the internal stigmatization.
I had a more articulately worded comment, but it was eaten up by the internet. So my not-so-coherent rambling...
DeleteI agree. I think the degree of stigmatization that people feel really depends on the individual. For instance, a lot of teacher LARPers I've met, because of their profession, are really paranoid about students finding out. I wonder if this has to do with the expectations surrounding a teacher: they're adults who are supposed to, essentially, be ushering kids into "adulthood" (whatever that actually means). As an anthropologist, I generally find that my colleagues are interested and accepting of my LARPing-- but, their jobs as anthropologists, are to be culturally relative.
On external stigma-- personally, I've experienced very little external stigma. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The most notable event was at madrigal, with the highschool kids who were chanting homophobic slurs, at the LARPers, as they drove by in their car. It didn't bother me, but it's behavior indicative of ignorance and intolerance from the mainstream community-- and I can certainly understand it hurting others within my own community (and, as you pointed out, reinforcing the cycle of internal shame).
So I personally don't think that LARP-ing is stigmatized, but I do think that it is really dependent on individual LARPers' ability to talk about the hobby to non LARPers.
ReplyDeleteI work in finance. I used to work at an investment bank, and now I work at a hedge fund. So - you know - industries that are not known for their geek populations. I find that explaining LARP-ing to my co-workers is more difficult than it is stigmatizing. For example, I attended Mirror Mirror this weekend, and told people I was going away for the weekend, and doing something that was substantively similar to camping. Some people were happy with that explanation, but some people would ask further. In that case, I would explain that we dress up and pretend to be characters, and that the activity usually involved running around the woods hitting each other with foam swords. At this point, my co workers would generally be pretty confused, given lack of a frame of reference for understanding fantasy characters. But with some more explanation, they usually gained some understanding of the activity. And while they might still find it strange, I don't think they found it any stranger than,say, my other co-worker who spends weekends riding 50+ mile bicycle competitions.
In general, I have had a lot of practice explaining both tabletop gaming and LARPing to people with no prior background in geekery. I have found that it is easiest when you present it as just a normal hobby that you engage in, and throw in some self deprecating humor. For example - whenever I ran into normally dressed people this weekend at the camp, I would just wave and say hi, like I would to anyone else I was meeting on the road. And if they thought I was weird, well, that's their problem and not mine.
That being said, I know I have certain advantages in explaining LARPS because I am a pretty well socialized person who is generally outgoing and articulate. So I don't know what it would be like to try and explain the hobby if I was less outgoing, or less articulate. More broadly, I think I also have a lot of experience being different from the norm - between my experience as a non-white medieval European student, as a woman in finance, and as a non-white woman in geekery - so I have built up a pretty thick skin for social situations.
While I have never felt stigmatized by LARPing, I can't claim that this is a universal experience, and I think it really depends on the person.
1) Yes, LARP is a stigmatized hobby. Despite the normalizing benefits of WOW and other MMORGs, and movies like LoTR and the Harry Potter books and movies...there's still a lot of anti-occult stigma out there.
ReplyDeleteBut way back when I started playing, the common understanding of D&D was somewhere between "weird" and the "Dark Dungeons" Chic Tract. Boffer larping was all of that with a "You cast spells out in the woods?!" tossed in. Plenty of camps, even entire towns, felt that old NERO was a bunch of satanists casting spells around a fire and performing occult rituals (possibly sexual) out in the woods over a weekend. From what I understand, NERO's cosmology was written without religion SPECIFICALLY to avoid satanic ritual overtones and occult activity accusations. And it wasn't enough...up here in the North East. We're not even talking about the Deep South, where today some people still think reading Harry Potter is a dangerous stepping stone to the practice evil sorcery.
I am also someone trained in a conservative profession. I do not make my LARPing public knowledge, specifically because it might have professional consequences - and every other person I know who is trained as an attorney at the very least does not allow their picture to be taken in a recognizable form at games.
2) As what I've said implies, some of where this comes from is religious intolerance - be it direct persecution from religious individuals or institutions, or an intolerance from people's reaction to elements of the activity that come from a societal norm that has a religious basis.
Some of it comes from a complete lack of understanding of the hobby and the feeling that it is weird or otherwise unacceptable. But in the recent past, I think that the LoTR movies, WOW and MMORG gaming, the Harry Potter books and things like that enjoying a MASSIVE mainstream success - at least this second prong of disapproval seems to be less of a force. But that isn't a guarantee though - overlap isn't total. My online gaming guild in DDO - they laughed at me when they heard that I LARPed...and brought up the infamous 'lightningbolt lightningbolt lightningbolt' video. And said that I should've just stuck with 'camping' rather than say I was at a LARP 'cause now they 'respected me less'.
I think this is spot-on, especially the historical connections. There was a Tom Hanks movie back in the 80s that directly portrayed LARPing as a gateway to murder.
DeleteThe ability for people to see in a positive light an activity that isn't clearly enjoyable unless you actually engage in it seems to be limited. It requires a lot of comfort barriers to be crossed; dressing in costumes for non-sexy-halloween reasons (and thus look dissimilar from 'normal people'), pretending to be another person (childish play connections), learn and play by a complex rules system (cognitively challenging), and run around and look stupid (just like football, but with far fewer narrative dramas to convince you it's alright to look stupid/exercise in this way).
Actually, I think that "Role Models" shows that while this is still a stigmatized activity, there is growing mainstream acceptance; having a Hollywood movie that portrays it in an even light is actually far and away the best indicators of this.
The thing is is that having people who do not belong there throws off our game- it's not just ignoring a couple of staff members trying to fix the bathroom or whatever- but literal droves of people, going through our main areas- and to be honest I felt like a circus attraction- I am not there for their amusement- this is our space.
ReplyDeleteThe same comparison can be made when there is a conference or convention going on (no matter what the group is) and large groups of outsiders are poking their noses around.
I don't mind people asking about it and being curious in general, and maybe wanting to try it out- but I certainly do when they haven't the foggiest understanding of what is going on and are affecting the game space.
-Tucker
I think that's an excellent point. A conversation about "LARP as spectator sport" came up in a monster camp awhile a go. There had been some very inconsequential talk, I believe in NERO, about LARP as a spectator sport (it was a second-hand conversation, so I can't really remember specifics). This just seems, to me, to defeat the whole purpose of LARPing, which is immersive.
Delete