Wednesday, December 5, 2012

On Surprising Staff

A submission from JJ!

So every now and then, the staff I'm on runs into a situation where a player decides that they really want to surprise staff with something.  And by surprise, I mean they want to surprise people OOG, not surprise some character that is played by a staff member.  It doesn't come up all that often, but when it does, it usually generates a fair amount of discussion among staff about how to handle the situation.  Here's the general feeling I've gotten from most of the people I've worked with.

Surprising staff is totally ok if: you are mostly trying to get a fun emotional response from the staff character.  Surprise! confessions of love/hatred, surprising them with a meal to cheer them up, anything that isn't supposed to have any effect other than generating some sort of emotional response from the staff character is cool, and tons of fun.

When it is not so awesome: if you're trying to get the staff character to drop information or actually jumping them with spells and weapons.  I understand the desire for an 'authentic' surprise response, but really, if you want to surprise the staff character into dropping information, it's WAY more likely to succeed if the staff member actually has time to figure out what information they should know to drop.  We try to build really well-rounded characters and to be briefed on as much as we can, but the sad truth is that I don't know everything that all my characters know, and if you happen to hit a topic that I am not OOG briefed on, then you're going to get a shocked exclamation, but no actual information on where my minion hid the liche's bottle.  Which is disappointing for everyone, both the player who set the whole thing up, and the staff member who'd probably *like* to reward the player for setting things up and get out information on their plotline.

Any thoughts on that?

14 comments:

  1. I agree, especially on the information front.

    If you don't let them know you're interested or what you are planning, they can't prepare an appropriate response or module in advance...

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  2. I can totally understand the desire to surprise some NPCs with violence. If they're sufficiently powerful (but not, presumably, unkillable in the "I go reform in my coffin/at my phylactery/in my divine sanctum, neener neener) way (or the players have gotten an applicable countermeasure), a well-planned out ambush can totally turn a fight like that from nearly unwinnable to totally achievable.

    I'm biased, in that some of the more memorable moments I've been involved with in the past involved things like surprise fights that had the entire town sneaking up on a sketchy meeting with the villain in the woods. No, I don't know how we got everyone there, either.

    As for not informing staff in general beforehand, there are plenty of reasons for that. Some are good! Coming up with it on the spur of the moment, or just not wanting word to get out. Some are totally understandable, but less good - like not trusting some members of staff to be able to let their character be surprised, or not wanting their favorite NPC to get beaten.

    Usually though, even if the players do a fantastic job at keeping it under their hats, staff can tell which of their characters are the types that the PCs may, at any time, decide to throw a blanket party on. :D

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    1. Yeah, I'm not generally worried about people coming up with some clever idea on the fly and 'surprising' staff with it. It's the nature of live-action that people are going to come up with... um... alternative solutions on the fly to just about everything at one point or another.

      I do get more worried when someone is like, "I have an elaborate plan that I'm going to surprise one of your characters with," and won't say anything else OOG.

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    2. I disagree with this. I think there should be some indication that this might happen to the NPC in question (via PEL or otherwise). Simply because sometimes NPCs are sent out without stats. They're not geared to handle a fight because staff wasn't expecting them to have one.

      Now, should we fix that by always giving NPCs fight stats? In an ideal world, sure. However, we don't often have the time to do this.

      I'm all for surprise in roleplay situations. That's part of the fun/challenge of playing an NPC(s) but it's really in the best interest of player fun for the staff to know as much as possible about player intentions. To sum up, players have to trust their staff. Staff is really out to give you a good time (Yes. For a good time, call staff at 1-800-YOU-LARP) and has your "best interests" at heart.

      Darren

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    3. I think mostly my issue with it is more like when it comes up during an event. "Hey, Galen's coming back into town tonight, right? You know, we have this thing which should keep him from escaping. Let's get him. He'll be coming in here to talk, and we can all hide under the porch, and you can elbow-dive him from the top bunk, and I'll dive in with the folding chair..."

      I've been in situations like that, and it honestly never occurs to me to kind of buttonhook a staff member and be all, "Hey, totally out of game, we're gonna jump Galen tonight in the cabin." Or to send someone by Monster Camp and let them know. Especially if there's no NPC that makes sense for us to mention it to because Galen's Ears Are Everywhere, y'know?

      (I'm totally discounting those complete spur-of-the-moment things, which I think we've all seen or been involved in, because while I am *totally* sympathetic to the poor staffer who is unprepared stat-wise or anything, you just can't plan for those at all.)

      If it's a long, drawn out thing? Yeah, totally mentioning it in the PEL is the way to go (like, I'm happy to be all, "I'm pretty sick of all this talking with that traitorous Galen. Who does he think he is, just coming in to town to be evil and show of his glorious hair? We should really just jump him, but I don't know if I can get anyone on-board with it, but I'm gonna try." That's usually enough, to me, but it's been years since I've been on anything resembling plot. ;)

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    4. Though in the circumstance you mentioned above, it wouldn't be a surprise to plot, cause presumably they'd have given you the thing to keep him from escaping. Most of the more elaborate murder schemes require some sort of plot buy-in in order to work.

      It's more of an issue with random mid-level pseudo-friendly NPCs, where the plan is, "Me and my five closest friends are planning on jumping X NPC next time they come to town." At which point we may or may not remember to stat said NPC before they go out to do their sketchy RP stuff. Unless we know that it's going to happen, at which point they will both have stats and be briefed on how to handle questioning/going to the gate to death/etc.

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  3. Oh, dur, I'll just post before I'm finished. Derp.

    Surprising for information, unlike surprising for violence, just seems silly to me. I mean, sometimes it just happens unintentionally, like when players have that eureka moment mid-conversation or earlier in the event and suddenly drop a question on the staffer, but that's pretty rare. Usually if it happens earlier in the event, it's because plot set it up. ;)

    Trying to honestly surprise someone for information seems doomed to me, because it's always for Big Things and that staffer just won't really be able to answer without time to consider what that NPC would know/want to tell/be biased toward, or whatever. It's annoying, because you'll just have to come up with an evasion to give you time to think, and it throws off a lot of interactions.

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  4. I guess my reasoning on wanting warning before PCs randomly jump something that I've walked into town as 20 times before is that I'm not tremendously good at stats, and often don't have a 100% solid grasp of what the stats of my NPCs are (me running around monstercamp in a panic trying to find a rulebook so I can figure out what spells various characters have access to is not unusual).

    My panicked response upon being jumped may or may not work out well for the PCs, and either way I'll feel crappy for doing the fight 'wrong'. Many other staffers probably would not have the same problem with this... but at the same time many others do.

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  5. I don't have a varied base of experience to bring to these conversations, as I've only played one game (and only as staff). In the beginning of my career, I felt like I needed to have an answer for any PC question, and that any named character entrusted to me by plot staff needed to come back alive (unless sent specifically into a combat situation).

    My experience as a staffer off and on over the past decade or so has finally led me to believe that neither of those previous feelings are true. However, to speak to surprises on the combat end of PC interaction, my early need to leave named characters as I found them led me to distrust the player characters (in-game mind you, out of game these are all lovely people that I hold in high regard). That distrust has kept me from being caught entirely off guard by PC attacks, even when playing friendly characters. In fact, I'm generally more surprised (and often pleasantly so) when I see the player characters solve issues with role-playing rather than combat. The cases when this surprise is less pleasant usually occur in colder weather when I'm playing an unnamed character and longing for combat to keep me warm :)

    As for roleplaying surprises, I've replaced my need to answer PC questions with a personal mandate to refrain from being a source of wild PC speculation. There have been times in the past where I've been questioned as an NPC and filled in minor details that seemed reasonable to me, but led to very interesting interpretations and alternate story forks. Now I try to make in character excuses ahead of time as to why I wouldn't have any more details than what I've been told. Friendly characters could be traumatized , hostile characters could be untrusting or defiant.

    Over all, I don't mind surprises so much. Sometimes I flub my stats, sometimes I get my information wrong, but I've always acted in good faith towards advancing the story as a whole. I'm okay with that.

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    1. I used to feel similarly about returning my NPCs to staff, more or less unscatched (physically, at least). For me, it made for artificial interactions between myself and NPCs (although I kept the original intention of the story very much intact). Then I started working with a staffer who has really shaped a lot of my approach to LARP-- that individual really emphasized to me how little it meant that the expected thing actually happened. So I loosened up, and presented PCs with more interesting interactions. Moreover, I quickly thereafter discovered the joy of "sandbox modules" wherein the (meaningful) outcome is totally open to PC interpretation; sure, it's labor intensive and dependent on PC/staff trust, but it can be really rewarding.

      Personally, I like controlled surprises. When a PC, out of left-field, decides to do something earth-shattering ("Why yes! I will bind my soul to that legendary weapon!" or "If the swamp prince needs a bride, I could do it-- I fit the bill.") in game, it's exciting for me and for the PC in question. However, I also like having the time to go back to Monster Camp, collude with other staffers, and deal with it as a team (assuming the action is outside of my personal plotline).

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  6. On the PC side: To the best of my ability, I've always *tried* to give info on my character plans/trains of thought. "Surprise" to me is a product of me the PC not knowing how the NPC will react to my intent, despite them having made up their mind about said reaction long before the next game session. It's not so much about ambushing them and going "ha, I've got them now!"

    Unfortunately I still tend to reflexively do wacky responses. I can't help it being new to larping AND being completely chaotic personality wise.
    Them: "Here's the idol of DOOOOM and you must retrieve it from inside this trapped box sitting inside the remains of the ancient dragon! Begin!"
    Me: "I try to talk to the skeleton!"
    Them: . . .

    NPC side I'm not sure about this aspect yet. I tend to not mind surprises because when players come up with craaaazy stuff I like to roll with it to reward thinking outside the box. My non-larp players find that I'll let them try and do just about anything as long as they appear to be putting real effort and thought into it. Like the time I had built this really complex 3D scale room for a D&D game because the combat was possibly confusing w/ multiple levels. The players decided they were going to close their eyes the WHOLE time and use someone's familiar as a seeing eye dog. Rather that forcing a situation to "make" them open their eyes, I rolled with it. So I had to keep them all in the living room, walking back and forth to the 3D model to reference what was going on lol. Eventually one or two ppl open their eyes, so they get to see the room. EVENTUALLY I get them all in the room. Was so odd but fun for all.

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  7. I think it's natural for any PC who has been jumped while walking around with minimal gear or allies to want to turn the tables.

    If PCs attack by surprise, I think the big question is "Should their ambush hand them an easy victory?"

    The answer depends on how realistic it is for the NPC to be able to defend herself, and how much you prioritize realism over providing the ideal story and challenge.

    If the ambush should hand them an easy victory, it doesn't matter so much if the staffer doesn't have stats--he's going down fast anyway, and it doesn't matter if he has a few more or less health or attacks.

    Of course, staff might prefer the fight to be challenging in spite of the ambush. Depending on the game, there might be only a few NPCs who are supposed to be tough enough to survive and ambush, in which case statting those guys is easy enough. If more than a few NPCs need to be able to pose a challenge in an ambush, then it's definitely necessary to ask players to warn staff if they're planning an ambush.

    In any case, a plea:
    Staff, do please communicate this with your players! The benefits of warning staff about your surprises may be high, but they aren't sufficiently obvious that the less experienced of us will just know to communicate that way--and learning a lesson by annoying a staff member and getting told off (even gently) isn't the best. Do please let us know if your game has specific conventions for communicating this sort of OOG info with staff during a game, beyond just whispering to whatever staffer is heading back to monster camp.

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  8. I think there may be a fine line here that bears defining.

    If I randomly ask you a question for information, out of the blue, it's a surprise. If I suddenly have the "AHA!" moment and finger your character as the murderer, that's a surprise (although hopefully somewhat expected).

    I think the big difference is how the PC deals with the NPC's response. If the PC catches you flat-footted (informationally speaking) then give them a polite brush off or explanation. Then take the question back to camp and feed it through the machine to get that PC an answer to reward them for coming up with it.

    I, for one, have never felt slighted by the polite brush off, or "I am not the source you're looking for." It's the lack of follow up that's vexing.

    That being said, if the PC doesn't accept the polite brush off, the fault is no longer on the NPC. ;)

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    1. That's a great point. OoG, people hopefully understand that staff can't answer all things at all times. That's the beauty of a fluid world. And the polite brush off can function as an indicator that, "Hey, creative player, I hear you, but I need an hour or so in monster camp to hash that out." When players don't go with the brush off, I get frustrated.

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